RYB 834 Building The TOP Swimming Pool Content Website After Getting FIRED (Matt Giovanisci’s Story)

I had the opportunity to interview Matt Giovanisci, and I'm excited to share a few highlights from our interview with you. Matt started a niche website 15 years ago called Swim University, where he posts a lot of “how-to” content related to pool maintenance. 

I came across the website a while back and used it in a case study for Brand Creators Academy. I also mentioned Swim University and its success in a recent podcast a few weeks ago. I received an email from Matt after the podcast was published, offering to come on as a guest to tell his story and answer any questions that I have.

I'm happy that he was able to join us on the podcast and can't wait for him to share with you all the ins and outs of his business, how he's found success, and a few things that didn't work out so well along the way. 

Let's dive right in and learn a few things from Matt about the process of how he got started and has since built multiple successful businesses. 

How Swim University Was Born 

Swim University has over 5 million visitors a year. As a seasonal website, we get over 1 million visitors each month between May-July and between 300,000-500,000 visitors during the other months of the year.

When I was 13, I got a job at a local pool supply store where I worked my up to become a manager before I graduated high school. 

Over the next several years, I worked for a couple of other pool supply companies before pursuing a job at a web design company. I had taught myself how to code and design websites. But after a few months on the job, I realized that's not what I wanted to do. So I went back to the largest of the three pool companies I had worked at in the past and become their marketing director. 

Around this same time, I decided I wanted to build a website where I could teach people how to maintain their own pools. I knew all about affiliate marketing and AdSense. So I figured it was time to start. Then I built the site for Swim University in 2006. I had a logo created to add to my site and still use the same one today.

At the time, I used an alias, Matthew Stevens, since I was writing all the articles myself. Also, making all the video tutorials I included on my site. I had a job opportunity to work with Martha Stewert's team on a project related to Swim University. At that time, I decided to change my name on the site to Matt Giovanisci. My boss found my site, and I was fired. 

I spent two additional years at another company (non-pool related) before they had to let me go. This was due to the condition of the company's financial situation. I knew it was coming to a couple of months in advance. Then I decided at that moment that I would make Swim University my full-time job. But only if I did get laid off. It had been a side hustle for over seven years up until this point.

How Swim University Become Matt's Full-Time Focus 

At the time, I was making around $10,000 or so a year from affiliate links. And ads that I had on my site. Most of them were from pool companies and other related products that I had sold directly. Because I wanted to make sure all the content on my site was relevant to pool maintenance. 

 I was getting somewhere around 25,000 visitors a month. My goal was to make $40,000 a year from Swim University. 

After I lost my job, I spent an entire year dedicated to growing Swim University. I focused on publishing content, creating YoutTube videos, graphic design, and infographics. I also dabbled in a few other projects along the way. By the end of the year, I was making over $40,000 a year. Now it's grown from there over the years.  

Matt's Defining Take Action Moment 

I was in a band back when I had just purchased the domain for Swim University. At the time, I talked a lot about the website and how I was going to make it a huge success. After a couple of years, one of my friends in the band finally told me to stop talking about it and just go out and do it. He told me that he didn't think I'd ever actually make it work.

I thrive off negative motivation, so this was just the fuel I needed to get started. I was shamed into starting Swim University in a sense. If I'm told I can't do something or it's a stupid idea, it gives me the motivation to see things through and prove that person wrong. I'm grateful to my friend for giving me the drive I needed to start.

My single guiding star is I will never work for anyone else ever again. I've come to realize that everyone has their own area of expertise, and for many managing a team isn't one of them, and I just don't ever want to work under anyone ever again.

However, in the pursuit of working for myself, I've learned useful skill sets that would keep me from ever being unemployed in the future if I ever needed something to fall back on. 

Note From Scott: The skills that you've learned, whether in a previous job or learning to start your own business, can be used in future ventures.

Guiding Principles Matt Follows 

I've come to realize that in every venture I've taken on, I've had to learn new skill sets to get me to a level of success. For Swim University, I had to forcefully learn to create “how-to” content that goes above and beyond anything else out there. I'm not a natural-born business person who has spent years learning how to improve my skills. I don't ever do anything just to make money. Instead, I focus on things I enjoy doing and learning new things. 

By paying extra attention to details, it makes my content stand the test of time. For me, the code for Swim University's website was really important. I paid attention to all the micro details and created all the code myself. I wanted to make sure that everything was up to high-standards and creates a positive experience for anyone who visits. Every year, I go in and update the content to keep it fresh and up to date.

How I Create Content For My Website 

Personally, I enjoy editing content more than free form writing. When I have to sit down and write an article, I start by writing the first draft, editing it, and then going back in to add in-jokes, reorganize paragraphs to better fit the story arcs, and taking it to a whole new lever before I deem it complete. How I write content is similar to how I build a website and always pay attention to the micro details.

It took me many years to find someone to help write content for my website. I didn't think anyone out there could write articles good enough for Swim University, especially if they didn't have as much experience as me in the pool space. 

I now have an editor who manages all the content for Swim University, and I answer to her. She sets the rules. Our other team members include a videographer, graphic designer, and a customer service manager. I keep my team lean, and it works great for us. 

How I Get Eye Balls on My Content

One of the reasons Swim University does so well is because it's fast and lean. I know how to format articles using the proper tags, how to do data schema, and have done the research to know what Google wants the data format to be like. 

I make sure to find a balance of giving the robots want they want while creating content that people will be interested in reading. 

If you want to have a successful business. Make sure that your website is easy to load and maneuver. Also, the content is structured so that Google can read easily. 

The Most Important Elements of a Blog Post 

  • How quickly it loads (WP rocket is a great free plugin)
  • Basic Formatting (in my opinion popups are distractions and slow down a site) 
  • Each paragraph should be 2-3 sentences max
  • H2 tags should be descriptive and keyword friendly
  • The focus should be on answering a question and not the length of a post
  • Make it creative and entertaining to encourage people to keep reading

The fundamentals are most important, so there's no need to go out and complicate things. My goal for every piece of content that I write is to make it bookmark worthy. I want it to be so good that someone wants to save it to read later or shares it with someone else. 

Matt's New WordPress Plugin – Lasso 

I've been working on a new plugin that I've actually had on my own site for over four years. It makes it possible to select a specific keyword in your article and add an affiliate link to all instances of that particular keyword. It also allows you to create a display box that shows all the information for your affiliate products and makes them stand out.

Note from Scott: Head over to brandcreators.com/lasso to check out the details of Matt's new plugin and all the awesome features it has to offer. 

Now is the Time to Get Started

If you have a business idea or something you'd like to try out, start now. You'll learn as you go along, and at first, it'll be a huge learning curve. But you'll learn, grow and improve as time goes on. Stop measuring everything you do. Instead, be present and enjoy the moment. 

If you want to connect with me or check out any of my latest projects, head over to moneylab.co.

Wrap Up With Scott

Hopefully, what Matt shared with you today has left you feeling inspired and motivated to go out and take action. I love Matt's story as it's similar to mine in a sense. We both started out learning a trade and went out and used those experiences to go out and create something of our own.

When you take action, you'll see the best results and will improve new skill sets that you learn along the way. Remember, consistency pays off. It takes time but is definitely worth it. 

Always be in the present, be a giver and give it you're all. Life is too short not to do something that you love and are passionate about.

Remember, I'm here for you, I believe in you, and I'm rooting for you 

It's time for you to go out and take action.

Now go rock your brand!

4 Takeaways From The Episode

  1. How Swim University Was Born (9:04)
  2. Matt's Defining Take Action Moment (26:45) 
  3. Guiding Principles Matt Follows Today (32:30)
  4. Now is the Time to Get Started (56:39)

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00:00:00 I was really bad with money at the time and so I'm like, I should probably give myself a bigger safety net than, than like living on the edge of, you know, just making enough to pay my bills. And so that's what I did. And then literally for that year that I only had a year of unemployment and I really only gave myself a year, I didn't want to take too much. I just

00:00:21 published content way. Hey, Hey, what's up everyone? Welcome to the rock your brand podcast. I'm your host Scott Bowker, a serial entrepreneur on a mission to help you.

00:00:34 This show is designed to teach you to inspire you, to motivate you to take massive action and build a future proof business. So whether you're just starting out or taking your existing business to the next level, this is your home now. If you're ready, I'm ready. Let's rock your brand. What's

00:00:56 up guys? Welcome back to the podcast. This is episode eight 34 and today I am excited to share with you our next guest interview and I want to give you a little bit of a backstory here. Before you listen in on this conversation now, when I first discovered this guest, and I'll give you his name, his name is Matt [inaudible] and he started a website over 15 years ago. And that website I found because I was looking for a niche example that I wanted to share with you and I wanted to share with my brand creators, Academy members because I'm always looking at either niche sites or brands that have been built that have done a pretty good job or where they can improve it. And in this case I found a website called swim university.com and I found that site and I was going through it.

00:01:55 I'm like, this is done really well and it's getting a ton of traffic. And the numbers that I seen in Uber suggest were around 400 to 500,000 and that was typically monthly is what we were looking at. But come to find out after I talked to Matt and I'll tell you how I ran into Matt is uh, I found out that those numbers were not accurate either. And you guys have probably heard me say that Uber suggest is great. It's a free tool, but the numbers are generally off. And I'm not, I'm not sure if it's just the way that they're measuring the numbers or tracking the numbers and maybe it's just a hundred percent search and just for the certain like exact keywords, like I'm not sure, but it's never, it's never right. It's always on the low side. And once again, it was proven to me because, well, Matt shared his numbers with me and uh, it's getting over.

00:02:46 I believe it was like 7 million a year. So that's a little more than 450,000, uh, every single month. And actually had some months on Uber suggest that it showed it was lower than that because obviously it's seasonal, right? It's a pool business or pool, like how to have a better pool or how to, a lot of how to stuff, right? How to take care of your pool, your hot tub and all that stuff. But let me just share the backstory real quick and then I'm gonna let you listen in on this conversation that I had with Matt, which was awesome. So you're going to want to stick around. Now. I ran into him because I published a podcast episode that was talking about his website and talking about his numbers and I knew that he was public about it, so I wasn't like sharing his numbers and then not that he would have really cared anyway cause it wasn't like money numbers, but I knew he was making some money, but he shares with us in this interview the exact numbers that he's making.

00:03:43 He's also going to share the money that he's going to be potentially losing because of this Amazon little slap with the Amazon associates program. So he's going to share all that with us as well. But I was, uh, emailed by him because he was, uh, he was notified by one of his friends that he was on the podcast or he was mentioned his website. So he reached out to me and said, Hey, I just want to let you know I'm an open book. If you want to go over it, I'd be more than happy to come on as a guest. And I said, sure, let's do it. And then I also had a Spencer Haws from niche pursuits reach out to me and go, Oh, I heard that interview. It was great. I actually had him on my podcast, you should really have him on.

00:04:20 So it was definitely meant to be and now I'm able to share with you all of the ins and outs of his business and also the other projects that he's worked on. He's also going to share with us his take action moment. He's also going to share with us some things that well didn't work all that well because that's part of the journey, but he's really going to dig into this process of building this business and how he even got started, which I actually kind of surmised the way that he got into it, but he confirmed that during this interview. So I'm going to leave it at that. You're definitely going to want to listen because if you are thinking to yourself, I want to go out there and build a brand, I want to figure out is this thing even for me and is it worth it?

00:05:05 Well, you're going to hear all the ins and outs and that will help you determine and also to let you know that just because you might think something as far as, wow, that market's too big, or Oh that's, you know, too many people in it, or Oh, there's too much competition. I think after you listened to this, you're going to see that in the pool market. Like really? Well, you're going to hear Matt talk all about it and he will confirm that. Uh, yeah, there's a lot of opportunity out there. All right, so sit back, relax and enjoy this interview. Well, Hey Matt, welcome to the podcast. Man. This is crazy that I'm actually talking to you and how I found you, but how are you doing man? How's everything going? I'm doing okay. I guess. You know, you've got a little bit of a slap here recently. I heard something from Amazon, was that a little bit of a slap? That was a lot, a bit of a slap that was, yeah, that was a, that was a kick in the nuts for sure. But yeah, you know,

00:05:57 I think, I hope that is a turning point for me and my business and probably something I should have been doing more aggressively in the last, uh, three years. Cause in 2017 we kind of got that a little kicking the nuts. Uh, and it wasn't a full one, you know, it was sort of like, you know, a graze, you know, it still hurts. It still hurts a little, but, uh, it wasn't as bad. And then like I was like, ever since then I was like, I gotta I gotta shift away, not shift away from affiliate marketing, but sort of like not make it my primary source of income. Um, and so that's for the last three years it's been building products, starting new brands and kind of like diversifying as much as I can. And it's really just all been all been about like diversification for me.

00:06:42 Yeah. A hundred percent and I do want to talk about that and I kind of want to give people like, we're talking to like big numbers for you. We're not talking about someone that's, you know, making a few hundred bucks a month and like, Oh, I got a hit from Amazon, they're going to take, you know, they're going to cut me 3%. Okay, that sucks. But it's like we're talking like six figure probably hit to your business maybe. Yeah. We're uh, probably w close to like a 40% hit to my total business revenue. So yeah. Yeah. So I mean I think the numbers that I published on money lab were like $176,000. Um, you know.

00:07:21 Yeah. What are you going to do? I mean like I knew it was coming. We all knew it was coming. You didn't know it was coming. Then it's like you don't, you didn't read Amazon, the everything store. Like, you know, he doesn't, he doesn't give a shit to be honest with you. So like, I mean, it's all business, all business. And if it, if it's not working for him, then you're done. So didn't want to rely on that. But I did. And here we are. So I think, um, I do have a lot of plans to change. I wrote a whole article about it. Um, and uh, I have a, uh, upcoming experiment on how to switch things over. I have, uh, other businesses that kind of like support, you know, and, and I've made up for it since. So yeah, because we can kind of get into all that.

00:08:01 Yeah, we'll definitely get into that. So, okay. So what we're talking about, why don't, why don't we get people caught up and just let people know. The site that we're talking about is swim university and that's the one that I found you from. I basically was doing a little bit of just, you know, kind of some niche research and I'm like, let me give an example to my listeners or to my people in my Academy and I'm showing, you know, like what a site looks like that's built it all on content. Yeah. And then from there, how they're monetizing on the backend. It just happens that you're, you were monetizing primarily through Amazon affiliate and you had a couple of products yourself, digital products. So that's the main one we're talking about right now. So I do have some questions once we get rolling here as far as even monetization and why maybe you were just using it.

00:08:43 Maybe it was easy at the time, like whatever, and we can kind of dig into that, but let's let people know first off, the kind of numbers, not even money numbers right now, the kind of traffic numbers that you were talking about from that at one site that you've built content over the past 15 years. Yep. What kind of traffic are we talking about here, Matt? It's about 5 million visitors a year. So it breaks down and it's a seasonal business. So it breaks down to be about 400 to 500,000 visitors a month. And obviously in January when it's the winter time we get more like 250 but in June we get like 1,000,005. So it kind of, it's, it's very split. So like right now as we're talking this, we're in may like Ryan pool season, like may, June, July, even a little bit of April, a little bit of August, but like those three months that, that like that quarter if you will, is like you're jamming right there.

00:09:41 Yeah. So, okay. So I want to talk about, first off, I'm going to go back. Okay, let's go back in time. Let's go into time capsule and let's talk about, because when I seen what you were doing, I'm like, this is brilliant. This guy probably worked for a pool company or he owned his own, he learned about pool company, had a whole bunch of questions that people are asking about pools all the time and he's like, you know, I think I'm just going to start giving the answers away to these commonly asked questions on a blog and we'll see what happens. Yeah. Give me, is that kind of what happened? I'm just guessing, I'm guessing. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot more years, right? It's, I started when I was 13 okay. So I had a job at a local pool store, stocking shelves, testing water.

00:10:21 Basically being a 13 year old kid, you have an adult come into the store and they're asking a kid how to six there, right. Or their $40,000 investment. Right. Which is like can you get it gives you a lot of power. So I did that for many years, became like a, a manager of the store before I graduated high school. Um, where I was like I'm in the store by myself, that sort of thing. And then I left that company cause I was like, well this is the small mom and pop store, you know, single owner, single store. And I went to another store that was multis. It was like they had a corporate office. They had like four, I don't know, they had three stores at the time. Oh wow. And I went into there at a, as a 17 year old, uh, and I was the youngest person to be hired at the company with prior experience.

00:11:09 It's like the youngest person at the company. And then also like who the hell has prior experience at 17. It's been a very specific industry. So I quickly became, uh, important there and uh, was working at the one of the three stores and I ended up getting to assistant manager position, got poached by another company to be full time managers, a small mom and pop store and doing the buying and running the service department and stuff. And then got, and then I got poached back to the other company was working there, uh, learned at, so during this time, I think it was like, I want to say I was 20, maybe. Okay. I was in a band and we needed a website. And this is before social media, so it's like a, I don't know what year, I guess 1999 or something like that. And yeah, we needed a website.

00:12:00 We couldn't afford anybody. So I decided to just learn on my own. I went on, I bought books, like eight books on HTML, CSS, you know, and I worked at a pool store in the Northeast. So in the winter time, we didn't have a lot of customers that was one of the computer and like open up no pad and kind of just start coding and seeing what would, what would happen. And I ended up learning enough to where we started. I built a website for my band and then I was looking at that on my computer at work and my boss, we weren't allowed to be on the computer, on the internet at work. Um, not to be on my space. You know, my boss and my boss would check it and he would check to see if you were on the web. And I, he saw me on a website and he was like, yeah, he's like, is this you?

00:12:48 And I was like, yeah, like we're kind of like thinking I'm getting in trouble. And I kind of was getting in trouble. Yeah. It goes and he asked me, he's like, did you design this? And I was like, yeah. He was like, okay. And he could've walked away. And I was like, okay. And then the next day he asked me to design the website for the company. And so I started doing that and then I was like, well, I'm good at website design. So I left to pursue a career in website design and another major, like a web design firm. Mm. And like how to wear a suit and had to travel an hour for work and wow. Worst job ever. Six months I did that and my boss called me back to his corporate office and hired me, so poach me back for a third time and, and hired me to be the marketing director for the, for the corporate office.

00:13:32 So I was running three marketing for three stores. We opened a fourth store together. Um, and was doing like TV ads, print ads, mostly print, uh, yellow pages, uh, radio ads, the website, yeah, every, everything. I was kind of in charge of all of it, running sales, stuff like that. So that is a little bit before that was around the time when obviously I was learning a lot about the internet and a lot about website design and website building. I knew about affiliate marketing, I knew about ad sense at the time. So I was like, I can build like I've been, I've been teaching pool care for since I was 13 years old to all these adults and I had my own style. Like it was a, it was a very, I, I, you know, I was a good educator. I've been told. So I was like, alright, let me start writing articles and building this website that I had this idea for it.

00:14:25 And I started it. I bought the domain in 2004. Uh, lost it cause I didn't build the site, had a rebuy it back for a hundred bucks instead of 10 bucks cause somebody else had scooped it. And I then finally built the site in 2006 and it was like eight all HTML dot. HTML pages where I wasn't on WordPress at the time and started just writing and yeah. And it was called some university. The logo is exactly the same. I've had the logo ever since. It never changed it. So like it, which is weird for me. And then it was like a slow, okay, we're gonna move over into, I actually designed my own CMS CMS before I even moved to WordPress. And then I finally moved to WordPress and you know, we were, it was just me. I was writing the articles, terrible writer, didn't go to college, didn't I failed every English class.

00:15:17 So my writing was terrible, but it was still putting content on the internet. I started getting into videos and when I, and I was always into video but never for the site. So I was to do it for the band and side, like a hobby thing. Yeah. But once I did that, it was like, okay, I think this, I can, I mean I knew that was always going to be my business. I knew some university from day one I'm like, this is going to be a thing for me. I know it's a thing, but it was a side hustle for seven years and it wasn't until I had, you know, so I had gotten fired for having that site. I at, I'm at this company, I'm the marketing director. And, uh, I had to make a decision because even though my site was global, like my site was, uh, you know, for everybody in United States, but I worked at a pool company that serviced the very small area.

00:16:03 And so we, we sold, you know, pool, opening service and closing service and stuff. And I'm teaching people how to do that online. So I kind of knew it was a conflict of interest, even though I keep telling myself like, it really wasn't, you know, I was kind of on a different level and I wasn't using my time at work to work on it. I wasn't looking, you know, I just, I kept them very separate because I have, I'm conscious and I'm morally obligated to do so. And so I ended up, uh, there was one day, so I decided when I started swimming diversity that I would go as an author, Matthew Stevens instead of my real name, which is incredibly Italian and, and, and not, not, you know, my middle name, Steven. So I'm like, I'm going to go as Matthew Stevens until I got a call from Martha Stewart radio show on Sirius and I w and they were like, do you want to come on and be our like correspondent for pool care?

00:17:02 And I was like, yes, I absolutely want to do that. And at that moment I made a decision, I'm going to be me, I'm going to be ma. I want my name to be out there. I'm the one who did this. And so I changed the name of the website. I changed my name on the website. All of a sudden I became Google-able and uh, yeah, my boss caught me, so, and he fired me. Uh, he said, yeah, he said he was, uh, he wasn't mad at me, he was just disappointed and I was like, are you serious? It was literally said that to me. What's so, so I guess, I don't know, I guess he looks at like you're kind of doing something on the side, but I don't because it was local business that he wasn't going for like global business right now.

00:17:44 So yes, I could see, I could see it if you were trying to target your local area and kind of business away or help people, like if anything he could have probably said something to you, said, Hey, how about you do this, you create some useful videos for us. We give them to our customers to help them to help us help them, you know? But yeah. Well that was the, that was the thing. We, him and I were working on an eCommerce store and my thought was I'm eventually gonna tell him about this so that we can start using the traffic from my site to this e-commerce. Like, cause I wasn't going to be like, have some sort of partnership in it. At least I was under the impression at the time. And so I was shocked that he didn't offer to like buy me out or do something with it because I thought this is an opportunity.

00:18:29 Not uh, but he, I think he just took it as, and I understand. I think he took it as, no, I was kind of like his guy, you know, at the store. And it, cause he, I was the more technical like creative person and he, he was like that too. Yeah. And I think I just, I think I, I dunno, I think I, it, it felt like I turned on him, but I wasn't, I never, that never would I was trying to do. No. And so I mean, it's tough man. Yeah. That's the, here's the, here's the, I mean, the big reason though is he didn't fire me because of it. He fired me when he found out after I had asked him for a raise because I had gotten an offer at another company. So I've gotten this offer. I came to him and I said, I don't want to leave, but I got to, I got a better offer literally five minutes down the road at a totally different industry, not a pool company.

00:19:20 Oh. I was like, can I, can you, can I, can you hook me up with a raise? I'll stay here, you know, whatever. And cause like things were moving for me. And then he, then he started researching me and then like two days later he was like, yeah, go goodbye later. And I was like, well, you're firing me but I have a job. So, so I ended up going working for this other company, more money down the street. Mmm. More flexibility and still working on my website. He knew about my website, you know, I was working on his website is great and there was, it was, I was there for a couple of years and then the company I think wasn't doing really well or maybe there was some, I don't know what, I don't know, want to speculate. But then I ended up, uh, getting unemployed and I knew it was coming for a couple months.

00:20:05 Like I had a feeling that like my job was on the line but not because of me. Uh, and I was like, aye, I think I'm going to take advantage of this if this, if this happens, I'm going to use this to make some university my full time job. And that is literally what I did. Aye. At that time though, Matt, like what was swim university doing financially? Like $20,000 a year. Okay. Maybe, maybe 10,000. Was what was that done at the time? Was that ad sense at the time or was it affiliate products or it was affiliates. It wasn't Amazon. It was, I was, so I had a relationship with a company called poles supply world, and they were on a service called Google double click, which is still a thing but not what it is anymore. Mmm. And then they moved to LinkShare, which is now I remember that.

00:20:57 Yup. Yup. Um, which is now rocking tune or whatever the hell. Yeah. Um, so moved over with them. I was getting 5% commissions and then, so I was making money from that and I was making money from ads. I was selling ads directly. I wasn't doing ad sense anymore at the time. Um, because it was just hated it. It wasn't like the right ads. I want it. Pool ads, I want to click. Right. You know, so I was going out and selling those myself, which was really hard to do because, I mean, tell me if you've ever seen an ad anywhere for a robotic pool cleaner, they don't market to you as a pool and they market to pool stores and then we buy in, we buy pallets instead of just one cleaner. Right? Cause it's like how do you target people who are, who own pools?

00:21:43 Can you write it one on Facebook? So yeah. So that's what there was a really hard sell to be like, Hey, I'm a direct to consumer person. Do you want to advertise your one ACO bought cleaner to this one, you know, first and maybe, and it's like, well then how did you even buy it? You know, they have to go to a store. And so it was a tough sell, but I did make money from it. And then I was doing ads, um, yeah, uh, affiliates with this one company. And yeah, I was doing about, I wouldn't say 20,000, but when I, when I was laid off, when, when you were laid off, okay. A year. And now, so what kind of traffic was coming in at that time? That's a good question. I don't know. And I don't think I have data that goes that far back anymore.

00:22:24 But, but it wasn't what, what did what it's doing now? No, I would say maybe uh, maybe 25,000 a month maybe. I don't know. Hard to say cause it's so much higher than now. But yeah. So yeah, that was, I had to go from like laid off making 20 grand. No it was probably something like 10 grand, cause I know it wasn't that much and I was like I need to get this to at least 40 grand. I need to get it to like, you know, and so what I did was when I left, when I got laid off, I collected unemployment. I had been working since I was 13, so I got like a pretty decent unemployment salary. But I was living in my own condo that I had bought. I was driving a BMW, I was bawling out cause I had a job while everyone was in college.

00:23:14 And so I was like, well, even though I was technically making the same every month between still making money with some university, I was doing website design on the side to make up for a little bit of money. I was getting unemployment, don't tell the IRS. And I was like, okay, well, uh, I can continue to live here, I'll be fine. But I didn't, I decided to rent my condo out, sell my BMW, moving with my younger brother and cut my expenses from like $4,000 a month to a thousand dollars a month. Um, just, I didn't want to be the guy who was, uh, freeloading off the government and, and, and living the lavish lifestyle that I have. So I didn't want to be that guy. Yeah. And so I was like, all right, that and plus I was really bad with money at the time.

00:24:00 And so I'm like, I should probably give myself a bigger safety net than, than like living on the edge of, you know, just making enough to pay my bills. And so that's what I did. And then literally for that year, I only had a year of unemployment and I really only gave myself a year. I didn't want to take too much. I just published content. I publish content, I improve the website. I was doing videos on YouTube, I was doing Mmm. The rap songs. I was doing Oh, graphic design. I was doing, uh, info, everything every day was for me. Diversity, it's all I do all day. And then, you know, you start to get burned out from that and you start to switch to other things. And you know, I started creating, uh, other little sites and I created a, uh, social network for dogs cause I was really into PHP development at the time and Oh wow.

00:24:50 That was trying to do all these different things and so many diversity, but just the constant and [inaudible] uh, eventually, so yeah, eventually it gets to 40,000, which was decent. And I was able to live off that. I was still doing website design on the side to kind of make up for the rest, no longer getting unemployment. I had found. And then it kind of goes from there where I teamed up with my buddy Andrew and we started a podcast called the somebody matters. And I was doing that full time and then some university was, had a back burner, but it was still there. It was still growing. It continued to grow and I didn't do anything. I didn't do any, like I didn't touch it and it tripled one year. And so I left the podcast and focused on some university again so that it, it, it, you know, tripled again.

00:25:36 And then every time I put any focus in from university it grows. And so that's been the journey so far. Um, I think within, after I was laid off, it probably took two years to get it to a hundred thousand dollars a year. Okay. So not too long, but um, again, full time, full time. Right, right. Okay. So I want to back up just a little bit because the one position where a lot of people are at when they're at this crossroad where they're at this fork in the road, I actually wrote a book on it called the take action effect. And it's kind of like the moment, there's a lot of these moments in our lives that they're, they're pivotable or they're pivotal. Like if you, yeah. If you didn't do that one thing or if you didn't get caught, where would you be?

00:26:25 Is there something that stands out to you? Like the minute I said that you're like, yep, there's that one thing. Is there something that you can kind of put your finger on and go, if I never did that, I never would have did that or would have started that. Is there something there that comes to mind for you on that? Yeah. Uh, yeah, it was a, it was a, it was, uh, it was a, so I thrive on negative motivation. I am from New Jersey. I call it Jersey rage. My edge comes from that. Uh, I had a friend, it was my bass player at the time. I was talking about building the swim university site. I'm like, I'm going to build this website. It's gonna great. It's going to be every, every pool person in the world is going to be like looking at it.

00:27:08 I'm gonna make so much money and two years of me saying this, talking out of my ass about, I'm starting this website and my bass player was like, dude, you need to shut up and do it already. Like you've been talking about this for so long. And he was like, I don't think you're going to do it or something like that. I was just like, yeah. And then it was like sort of a a moment where I was like, Oh, I'm going to show you or I'm going to do the thing because I was, I was told I was kind of like get shamed into it in a way. And I, I thrive in that, in that, in those moments. And that's pretty much like if you tell me I can't or you tell me that it's stupid or you tell me what, like it just gives me more motivation to like see it all the way through. Like just and just, just to say that I did it. Um, and so that was that moment. So you can kind of think your bass player. Absolutely.

00:27:59 Girl, shout out Ryan Carlson. Thank you. Ryan Carlson. Yeah. You know, cause I do, I think that those moments are massive. And like myself, my story, like when I was in the construction business with my father, I thought I was gonna own that company one day. His partner is what made me see that that wasn't going to be the route for me. And it actually pushed me out of the business, which actually was the best thing that ever happened to me. And you know, same, same thing. And I'm assuming he was a bad boss, right? Yeah. Well, okay. I don't want to say every bad guy. He wasn't a, he wasn't good at business. Yes. I, so, so I have a few like things that have pushed me in this direction. One, I never, and this is again thriving off negative motivation. My single guiding star, my North star is I will never work for anyone else ever again.

00:28:48 Yup. Because not that I've, not that I've had good or bad bosses, like I've had bad bosses, the boss who fired me, like I liked him. I liked working for him. Yeah. I didn't think, I didn't agree with his, his managerial style at all. He was very micromanagy and I was like, dude, get, stay off my back for a second. Yeah. Um, which I think, yeah. And, and my other boss was more lax a diesel and so like I've had these [inaudible] bosses that I've liked and the pieces of, but I was like, I can do this. I can, I, I was teaching adults how to take care of their pool. Like I clearly have the power here. Like what are they? They don't know. It was very, maybe it was, I don't know. Now I'm saying it now and maybe it's a thing, but maybe I saw the flaws in our parents as such a kid as a kid making, they don't know shit, I can do this.

00:29:39 I'm 13 I can do this. So like maybe, I don't know, like you find out that like, you know, people have different areas of expertise and not everyone's a superhero. So yeah, you could argue no one is, but I would say that that is, yeah, there's a couple of those. And that's been my like thing I always told my mom I'd, I'll live in a cardboard box before you ever see me working under somebody again. Yep. I agree. I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to do it. It would crush me. You as a person. I think the big takeaway though, for even people listening that haven't, like, they're still in corporate America or whatever, it's just scary out there. Like, I got to survive on my own, but I want it to, cause I want the freedom side of things, but Oh my gosh.

00:30:18 But the one thing that we don't take into consideration, it's like everything that you've done, even just working for that pool company built up a skill set that you could fall back on tomorrow. Like you have so many skills you're building like you know, not just websites but you're building like software and kind of yeah and stuff like you taught yourself. So like those skillsets, even though they might've been hard at the time, those were your, those are your, your new skills that now you can get hired for. You could, you know, do a job thing. Exactly. In the pursuit of working for myself, I learned skill sets that make me like basically I'll never be unemployed a hundred percent yeah, I love that. And I try to do it too. I try to find skills too that are non internet based. So I didn't know how to, I do know how to do other things.

00:31:01 Like I could work at any brewery right now because I know how to brew beer to a very like high level. So I feel like I have that skill that I've learned as a hobby and I'm like, you know what, if even if like the whole world goes to shit, I'm sure there's still going to be beer and people are going to need beer and I'm going to be the one making that beer. So there you go. There you go. That's just a just in case. Just a little skillset back pocket skill. Yeah. Alright, cool. So I love your story man. And uh, I love that you're open and honest with everything and that's why I did want to get you on. And it's just, again, I think it's fate. Like, I mean, you're here because of something that I published, I found in here you are, and we're sharing it with the world and we get to help more people.

00:31:41 And uh, I really, uh, I appreciate that. So let's talk about this. Okay. Let's, let's talk about like right now in the state of the internet, like what it is right now, we've learned a ton. Things have changed. Amazon has changed, whether you're affiliate marketing or you're selling private label products or whatever. Right. There's all these different things that change. Google changes, you do changes, everybody changes. Um, right now, what is your primary like focus or advice to yourself if you're, if you're working on a website delivering content to a market that you know is buying stuff or that will turn into money. What is your number one advice for someone listening or even just what is the principles that you follow today? The principles that I follow today are I don't want to do anything that is just to make money. I don't, I'm not a, I'm not a, I'm not a natural born business person.

00:32:38 I had to, that's a skill that I like forcefully. You had to learn. I consider myself more of a creative type and so aye I kind of go above and beyond even creating like a how to article on algae. Like I th I think I'll just push it because one, I get satisfaction from it as a creator and too, it's like I know that it will stand the test of time. Like no one will be able to touch me because I put so much effort into it. And, and I, I do that with like if you look at money lab, which is my psych kind of where I, and more public about the things that I do behind the scenes at swim university and other and other others projects. That site is like just attention to detail and I that is like, that I guess will be my legacy of, of just, you know, I can do whatever I want there, I do whatever I want there and I try to do it to an ability, I try to do it so just out do even what I think I can do myself, which I don't, no.

00:33:39 If a lot of people think of their businesses that way, maybe they, I mean I'm sure they do if it's like a hundred percent their thing. But I mean even like the software that I'm working on, like we, I mean I'm pushing it to such a level that I didn't know I could do and I had to learn a ton of new skills to get it there. But I was like, I'm just going to focus on these like micro details that maybe no one will ever see. But I, I think that, that, that'll just make the software or the project or whatever you're working on, be that good and that referenceable later. Um, so that's kinda my principle of, of, and, and it's all about, you know, I, you know, the easy way to say it is like deliver value to your customers. Like no shit.

00:34:23 Okay. Like that's should be, that's like, okay, that's the most innocuous advice ever because it makes no sense. It's like, well, I don't know what you consider valuable. I consider, you know, I might find videos more valuable than text. And I do, I don't read books, I watch videos. I think that, I feel like there's more work that goes into those. Um, but I dunno, I think it's, it's, it's more of a, you're, you're more on the quality side. Yes. Yeah. That would be, and, and being in paying attention to the detail. And I think yeah, for me, um, the way that I'm interpretating that is if someone just wants to come in and try to compete with you, they're going to have to compete with your level of, of expertise but also detail in that post is going to, like you said, stand the test of time and it doesn't matter what Google does because yours is going to rise above and, and, and then at the same thing with the site.

00:35:17 I don't, aye. You know, I know that I'm not this like like swimming diversity can be competed with like somebody could compete against it. I'm aware that people are going to come and they're going to try to build a site like some university they do. I am still here. Right. And it's still growing, right. And I really don't have to do anything anymore. It is just, there's so many processes in place and there's so much quality in the full product because I don't look at it as like an individual blog post. It is a textbook that isn't updated every single year. And it is, it is the textbook. It's not, you know, no other textbooks going to come and say, you know, we're, we're, we're, you know, we are, we are that textbook for every school across the entire world. Yeah. And as long as I keep it at that level, then I mean, you know, cause all we had to do was make it really good and then update it really well. [inaudible] that's kinda it.

00:36:14 Yeah. And it's not just articles, it's not just videos. Those are the components. There's like the website itself. No, the bones of it. Yeah. I mean like it's the attention to detail in the code of the website is crazy important. Um, you know, I, I developed a theme based on that and you know, it's, it's a, it's, it's a really lightweight thing, but it took 15 years to get it that lightweight cause it was complicated and it has been complicated and it's been like removing things, adding things. We're seeing the data moving, you know, changing things because of a certain, you know, yeah. We all used to have share buttons on our website. Some people still do. Yeah. I had data that showed that no one used them. So guess what? I have it saved me three seconds off my load time. That's like for good reasons.

00:37:07 Um, and so yeah, and then it's like building little things, like even all of the display boxes that you see on, on swimming university, like those were built originally by me and then eventually became a plugin and now as a like more full-blown software that you can buy now. So it is, yeah, every single piece of that site is like mine. So. Okay. So you're a very, uh, I'm a very detailed person. You love code, you love all of that stuff. Yeah. What was, what, what advice would you give to someone that's like, I like, so you, you said you don't like writing, so how, how do you create content if you don't like writing? Uh, because I, uh, that's, that's a great question because I, I hire a writer on a, on a, on a website that I'm not like attached to that I just want to build, to grow.

00:37:56 But I'm just curious on your process, how would you do that right now? You know that you want to get started in this market. You want to write content, you hate writing. I don't like writing. I didn't, you know, I barely passed English in high school. Like you were a lot of like, I didn't go to college. So how do you get yourself to do it or who do you find do it for you? Yeah, so it took me many years to find somebody and in fact for the longest time, it wasn't until 2015 until I actually found somebody, I kind of told myself a story that I am the only person in the world who knows enough about pool care and can write these words down right my way. Like I was like, I'm the only one in the world who can do this because if I have these two expertise, like I know how to use WordPress and I'm also like a pool nerd.

00:38:43 Um, that's a silly statement. I realize that now in hindsight, but at the time like that's sold that story hard to myself and I knew I wasn't a good writer and I knew that writing was a slog for me. And the way that I approach writing even today is the way that I approach code where I will. It's attention to detail and it's kind of weird because like I hate sitting down and free form writing. I enjoy editing a lot more. And so what I will do is I will slog, I will slog through writing and it's a hard and I hate it and I will take a million breaks and I will whatever. But I will keep pushing it. I will keep taking that article and I will keep pushing it and I'll keep editing and I will try this sentence could be said, how many, how can I make this one sentence makes sense with four words instead of you know, 30 or whatever.

00:39:40 That's the front on sentence. But like I take each sentence and punctuation and words like individual lines of code and, and break them down to make them as like streamlined as possible. And that's kind of how I hacked the way that I write is I'm more optimizing rather than writing for creativity. I'm optimizing. And then it's, and it's like also I look at an article and I say, uh, and I don't know if a lot of people do this in, in, in this industry or any industry, but like when I look at, and I don't write pool articles anymore, I do help with them sometimes. Very rarely, but I do. But if I'm writing an article for like lasso or for money lab or whatever, one of my other projects, I will right it, edit it, like in technically optimize it and then I will go back in and punch it up.

00:40:30 So adding jokes, uh, reorganizing paragraphs to fit the story. Mark's better. Like, just really kind of taking an article and like beating it up. And the same way that I would do like designing a webpage, it's the same like process. And so that's kinda how I hacked it. Um, and then obviously like hiring people to do, I mean, like I haven't, I have an editor in chief who, who does swim university. She's in charge of everything I answer to her. Okay. So like she's, she sets the rules and I, my first writer that I hired, it was the opposite. Okay. Aye. You would come up with a title for an article. I would do all my research and I would say go write this article. They would put it on, they would put it on the site. And because I hate writing so much, I probably would, I wouldn't even read it and I would just like let it go.

00:41:24 I would just let it be published and it was fine. And it wasn't until I was like, I wanted to get, I wanted to hire somebody who looked at and cared about the quality of writing as much as I did. And I knew that wasn't going to be somebody like a, somebody you would hire on Fiverr or on, you know, whatever. I knew it. I had to be somebody I could Skype with on a regular basis. And, and so the way I hired her was by an application that was basically like, I don't even care if you can. Right. I care if you and I have the same taste. And that was what I was doing. One of my questions, one of my favorite questions I ever wrote, every anywhere is send. I was like send me three videos that make you laugh. Right. And I want it because what I was trying to find out is will I laugh too?

00:42:16 Yeah. And if I, and if I find it funny and you find it funny. Okay. We have the same sense of humor. It's great. That's a great thing. Yeah. And then same thing with like what do you think is the best content on the internet? Like send me a URL to one thing that you think is like the best thing you've ever scene. And I actually had a URL in mind, like an, actually it was a New York times article and she sent the same one. Oh. And I unprompted and I was like, well there you go. And she had one, she sent one video that made me laugh out loud like, and I was like, okay, this is like, she blew everybody away and she cried. And then she knew how to write. She knew SEO and I was like, who is this? Like yeah.

00:42:57 Immediately hired her and was like, you know, started small, started slow cause it's, you know, now she's full time. But at the beginning she wasn't, and it was just like, it took a couple of months cause she's not in the pool industry, she didn't have prior knowledge. And so you have to learn that industry a bit. I mean, I still had to do QA to make sure that the information that was going out was accurate in what we want it as a, you know, cause we have our own kind of cool philosophy that things have to go through before they can get published because we can do research, but the research may not match what I've set as our like fundamentals of, of how care. Yeah. Yeah. And now she knows. I mean now that's kind of a, her department like, you know, and still, and I'll, I'll come up with an idea and she'll say, yeah, we don't do that.

00:43:40 I'm like, Oh, okay. Good night. You know? So it's like, you know, it's, yeah. And so like, uh, I have that and that's just been the greatest and rockstar, you know, but my team's incredibly small. It's like me, her, we have, um, somebody that does videos for us now who lives with me and is my partner in life. Mmm. And we have a graphic designer and we have somebody does customer service and that's it. I love it. Nice and lean. Nice and lean. There's a whole article about it. I did because I was, I did have a lot of employees and I scaled back big time after going into debt and kind of like re-evaluating things and so yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Again, it's one of those things that you learned. Okay. So we're going to be wrapping up and I can do have more questions, but we might have to have you come back on at another time.

00:44:27 What the digging is, more tactics is okay. I want to hear them brain. Yeah. I want to pick your brain, some SEO stuff, but maybe you can give us just things you've learned over the years. Maybe something that you can give us a bite sized piece of like what is like critical do you believe too? And I know it's like, let's just say that it's good content. Let's just, let's say good content is a given. Like we got to deliver good, good content. What is something that you, I feel that content creators that are looking to serve [inaudible] specific market, what is something that they should pay attention to that you feel helps in the ranking for, you know, getting your stuff seen out there? Oh, are you talking about SEO specifically? Yeah, if I can, I mean, okay. Unless you have something else. No, I mean it's your question.

00:45:17 I mean, if you want to answer it any other way you want, I want eyeballs. I want eyeballs on my content. Okay. Uh, okay. I, so this is like a, it's probably a bad answer. I think it's your answer. Yeah. Okay, fine. So I'll take that. Uh, I think one of the things that I think is my super power [inaudible] is the fact that I can code, right? I'm not an excellent coder. I don't, I don't, I can code in HTML and CSS and PHP because WordPress is written PHP. And that was like the language back when I first started. I am dangerous, you know enough. I wouldn't say no women to hire me as a programmer for their company as like a software engineer or anything. But, but the, and the reason why I say that is because there is nothing stops me from optimizing something on my website or improving something or making something, you know, making something better.

00:46:17 Like nothing stops me. I don't have to wait for developer who I don't trust or don't know. I don't have to. Mmm. You know, look for a designer to do this thing. And I know that's a Jack of all trades stuff, but I'm, but the reason I say that is because you are in the internet business. [inaudible] I know how the internet is built and how it works and how to manipulate it any way that I want to and as fast as I want to do it. And so I think part of the reason that my site does so well besides content is the fact that it is incredibly lean. It is incredibly fast. It's, and this is all done on purpose. You know, I actually have an entire course on page speed, uh, shit that I didn't want to learn. It's hard, it's hard stuff, but this is my life.

00:47:09 This is my entire business. I better know how it works. And aye, no how to format articles with, you know, [inaudible] tags and H one tags and all kinds of that stuff. I know how to do data schema stuff. I know what Google wants the data to be formatted like so that it has the best chance of ranking. I know what they w you know, it's like, it's just understanding the robots and then the content is for the people. And so I think it's a two fold approach. It's a great analogy. Yeah. I mean, yeah, for sure. Like you've got to give the robot Google what they want and then you got to give the people showing up what they want. It's got to get, like give the robot easy food to digest and then also give easy food to digest for the people. So you've got to do it for both.

00:47:55 Above that. Yeah, I absolutely love that. So, okay, so basically obviously, uh, you know, having a site that is easy to load, easy to maneuver, and then also the content is also structured in a way that is giving the search engine the robots with what they actually want. Um, and so what, let's, let's go this way real quick. So as far as like what are the, what are the most important parts of the actual article itself? Would you say load how fast it loads? Um, I think the biggest thing you can do is do add lazy loading to your, to your site. Um, WP rocket has a good plugin. If you use WordPress, that's free. Uh, I think having like just basic formatting stuff, I don't think, I think distractions, popups, all that stuff need to go away because that yes, it does increase your, you know, might increase your email list.

00:48:52 But I would question whether those people are even worth having on your email list, you know, a large percentage of them. Um, because they're, they're putting their name in a pop up, like who does it? But we don't do that as, as website runners. Right, right, right, right. Like are like, are we more evolved? Of course. Yeah. So that's a, you know, in the internet space different, like we're more engaged and that's, that's the answer to that. Um, removing distractions, focusing on the content, making the content. Like, one, you want an H one tag as your title. You want H two tags to be descriptive, but also keyword friendly. You want paragraphs to be two, three sentences max. You don't, length is not all that important anymore. It used to mean there's arguments to say that like, Oh, it has to be at least 2000 words.

00:49:36 And it's like, no, it just has to answer the question. Okay. Google is slowly trying to answer questions and not use your website. So you need to be more like that. Um, you need to be very quick at answering questions. Like, when's the last time you went on a recipe blog and you were like, just tell me what the recipe is. I don't need your life story. Right. Same thing in, in like how to articles. I don't need 12,000 words to tell me how to, you know, start a blog. Just tell me what the, you know, give me the answers. Yeah. Uh, and do it in a creative and in good way and do it in a, uh, you know, entertaining way, but also like format it so that it's easy to digest. And it is like, it's kind of an art form. It's kind of a technical skill.

00:50:19 It's, it's, it's like, I kind of think of it like a brewing, but there's like definitely science involved, but then there's definitely feel involved. And it like, cause you have to kind of know what feels good as you're reading. I was like, Oh, is this flow right? Is this good? Am I getting, am I, do I feel like I've been, I'm being taken care of? Am I getting my answers? That sort of thing. Um, and so yeah. I, yeah, that's what I, that's what kind of what I'm thinking. Good advice. I mean it's, it's basic stuff. Like you said. I think sometimes the fundament, the fundamentals, we kind of forget about, no, we know, we overcomplicate things as human beings. That's what we do, right? We want to add all the plugins to get all the possible little tiny views here and there. What really matters is like, is someone going to bookmark this?

00:51:02 Yeah, that's what I, that I always talk about creating book markable content. Yeah. And it, it's almost, it's funny because like, no one really Ooh, really bookmarks anymore. Yeah. Like, remember, like delicious. Like, come on, we don't do that anymore, but if something is really good, if you bookmark that shit and I just, and that's kind of like my, and it still works, you know, it's like, or will this be emailed to somebody, you know? Oh, that's awesome. Oh man, this has been great. Like I said, I want to dig into more stuff. We could go here for hours, but we'll have to have you back on. I do want to go, uh, in, in a couple of different directions when I do have you back on. But for now I think, I mean we've given people, I think a lot of things to consider, but also, you know, I'm having these interviews for people to be number one inspired, motivated, and also just seeing that when you take action, you do get results, no matter if they're good or bad, you're learning, you're building a skill set.

00:51:54 And I think your, your proof of that, um, and you're also proof that consistency and committing to something pays off. Right. It's like, so many people want to, you know, they, they see the, the Lamborghini and the yacht and they say they can make it in 30 days. And it's like, that's all BS. We all know it. But yet a lot of people are still falling prey to that. And I don't like that. So it's like, I want to get people on like you that's like, you know what? It takes work, but it's worth it. Yeah. Because I'm not working for someone ever again. Right. Like not happening. So, uh, so to, to really wrap this up, let me ask you this. So what is like your, what's your most exciting project that you're working on right now? Lasso is my, we literally just talked about it for four hours and we are so pumped about this software.

00:52:39 Tell me about it. Okay. It is, and I feel it's affiliate marketing software for WordPress. Okay. And a couple of things that I can do, it's Mmm, it's sort of like, imagine if you could have a URL to a, to a, you know, affiliate link doesn't matter. Amazon link, uh, you know, convert kit link, whatever it is, right? Um, you can go in and you can type in a keyword, like say it's ConvertKit, the keyword of the thing. It will go across your website. It will find every time you mentioned the word convert kit and with a click of a button, you can turn that word into an affiliate link. Oh. Another thing you can do is you can add display boxes with different themes across your website. So that, that's the, basically what I built on swim university was this like, uh, early where we actually, you know, we connect to the Amazon API where we pulled down the price, the image title, all that stuff, and then we create this like display box that shows you all this stuff.

00:53:37 And it increased, it increased my conversion rates to WordPress or to Amazon. And it also does it across the board because it just makes the product stand out. And not only can you just add those displays, you can add grids, you can reorder those grids. So you can like have a, basically turn your website into an eCommerce like store, but with affiliate links and uh, yeah. And on top of that, it has like reporting in there that you can see, like where you're linking to things, what you're doing. We have, you know, we're coming out with comparison tables in the next few months. We have, it's just, you gotta see it to believe it. Uh, it's, yeah, no, go, go ahead. I was just, I'm not getting excited as you're talking about. I was just going to say, I was talking to a friend who's, who's in the affiliate marketing space and it was the first time I showed it to him.

00:54:23 I had no, I didn't expect anything and he was very impressed, which was shocking to me just because I know one there, you know, and then he was like, you've outdone yourself cause this is like pretty, this is pretty cool. And we worked two years on this thing and we recently redesigned it and I'm really proud of the like interface, the design, the new logo, the, I mean everything, the attention to detail. It's been like I put everything into it that I have. I, I've seen, I've seen, uh, what you've done on swim university. I know that that plugin has been used on swim university, correct? Yeah. For four years, but it was a, yeah, it started as a function that I just created. And then it, and then it became a plugin that was like, I couldn't give it to anybody because it would break your site.

00:55:12 And then it became a plugin and then it became, we call it, it was called earnest and then we rolled it into a thing called lasso with, and this is a, and this is built for WordPress as well? It is, it is a WordPress plug. Okay, cool. All right, so right now you talk like one, you, you and I talked a little bit before we, before we got on and uh, I am going to have some of the resources linked up in the, uh, in the resources. I haven't had a chance to check it out. I am going to, I have, I have two brands right now that we've built in the past seven months. We're getting about 20 to 25,000 page views a month so far, which isn't bad. Um, we are already starting to throw Amazon ads on there and stuff. Um, but um, I'm going to test that out.

00:55:53 So we're going to have to, I can demo it for you after the show if you want, if you have time, let's, let's do that. And then guys, what I'm going to do is I'm going to set up a pretty link now because I'm pretty sure that you'll want to go there and check it out. So if you go to brand creators.com, forward slash lasso, we'll go ahead and we'll send you over there. You can check it out and maybe even twist Matt's arm and maybe, you know, I don't know. Give us something a little extra, maybe something, I don't know. Well maybe I can give you some, I don't know. We'll figure something out. Go there. Check it out. Yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll hook you guys up. So, alright, let's, uh,

00:56:24 let's do this. Let's wrap this up. Um, is there any last little bits of advice or anything you want to give? Um, but you know, the listeners just, you know, from your journey, but also people that are thinking of like, you know, either I'm either wanting to start or I want to take my business to the next level.

00:56:39 Now is the time. And I'm not just saying that in may of 2020 because I know we want to keep these things evergreen, but now is the time. Yesterday was the time.

00:56:49 Hmm.

00:56:50 It's, it's just there's,

00:56:53 I'm so glad I started when I did and I am also wish I started sooner and yeah, you know, you will learn, you will learn as you go. You will not be perfect when you start. You will actually be crappy when you start. And I, every time I start something new I'm very bad at it and then it becomes, I focus on it and I get a little bit better and it's like okay, whatever. And I don't do that whole thing. I think like stop measuring everything, you know, cause life is too short to measure every single thing that you do because every time you sit down to measure it or write it down, you are missing out on an on, on life itself. I stopped, I used to, you know, every time I'd philosophy my teeth, I'd put a checkbox in my thing. Like I lost my did it dude. Yeah, I did it. Come on. Just be present.

00:57:37 Yep, I do. Man, you're, you're speaking to me in such a of my language. Uh, have you read the book, the carpenter from John Gordon? No, I have not. You got to check it out. I'm recommending to anybody. I'm actually interviewing him, I believe next week, so he'll be airing on one of our expert interviews coming up. Um, John Gordon, he also wrote the energy bus. I think he would like that as well. They're very short reads are about, I don't know, maybe 200 pages if that. Sometimes 150, 175 but they're, they're kind of like short stories, but they're always relatable from a character and the person that's being taught the lesson. And it's what you're saying right here about being in the present, doing what's true, be a giver, love and just give and do what you're supposed to do, man. Just go with your heart.

00:58:24 And I think you know what, life is too short. And I think it was just who short dude. Yeah. I got to do a presentation tonight, which after this airs, it'll be already done. But I'm presenting for sellers summit, which is an eCommerce. And in my whole talk is really about that is a, is like about like, listen, we can be busy all day long, we can be busy doing what we think is productive, but it really isn't and we're missing out on something else. If you love working on your code, then do your code. But if you don't, don't do it right. Like, yeah, no. So anyway. All right man. Well, Hey, thank you so much Matt, for coming on. I think that uh, this whole thing has, uh, has really opened my eyes just to how small the internet is because here I did a little podcast episode about your site and here you are and delivering value and I think that we're also going to have a friendship here, so I really appreciate you coming on, man. I truly do. And I want to have you back. Yeah, him back.

00:59:15 Thanks for having me, Anne. Absolutely.

00:59:17 Yeah. And guys, what we'll do is we'll link up everything for Matt. Matt, what's the best way that can just get in touch with you? Money, lab.co you got it. Mary could sign up and everything. That's kind of where I live. Okay, cool. Yeah, I've checked it out. It looks awesome and a great information. Uh, it's true and it's raw and uh, non censored by the way. All right guys. Well, Hey, thank you so much Matt. I appreciate it. And I'll be in touch brother. All right, well hopefully you are inspired and motivated to get out there and make it happen because if Matt can do it, if I can do it, you can do it. But you have to get out there and take some action. And that's what Matt has done and I love his story because it's a lot like mine started working for, you know, someone at an early age.

01:00:07 I was working for my father's construction company. He was working for a pool company, learned the trade and then started to, uh, document that and actually help people with what he was doing in the pool shop. In my case, I'm not teaching construction, but a lot of my stuff does kind of look like building a house. And that's why I always talk about building your home base, but I also want you to make sure that you, you go back and maybe listen to this one again or parts of this one again because there's a lot of nuggets there. If you want the show notes to this episode, head over to brand creators.com forward slash 834 again, that's brand creators.com forward slash eight 34 you can get all the show notes, the transcripts, the links that we talked about there. You'll get a link also to mats stuff that he's working on. He's always over there in his lab, kind of a working away. So check them out and also his tool lasso. So, uh, guys, that's it. That's pretty much going to wrap up this episode. And as always, guys, remember I'm here for you. I believe in you and I am rooting for you, but you have to, you have to come out. Say it with me. Say it loud. Say it proud. Take action. Have an awesome, amazing day and I'll see you right back here on the next episode. Now go rock your brand.

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