Welcome to part two of this LIVE Hot Seat Session with Scott and Chris! You can find a link to part one of this Hot Seat Session down in the resources section below. On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from the guys as they continue their deep dive into one of their student’s businesses. They particularly focus on keywords, how to get your product listing to rank, why it’s important to study the competition, how tools like Scope can help you get a competitive advantage, when it’s the right time to ramp up your PPC spending, and so much more! You don’t want to miss a minute of this informative and valuable episode!
Make sure to use tools like Scope!
As an ecommerce business leader, you want to maximize your efforts and eliminate as much inefficiency as possible. What is the best way to get the most out of your resources? On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Scott and Chris as they explain how using tools like Scope can help sellers like you succeed utilize automation. Don’t get stuck taking the long way when you don’t have to! The benefit of starting your business in the ecommerce sector is all the amazing tools that are being developed to help you succeed and get more done. Hear all about the tools that Scott and Chris use and recommend on this engaging episode!
Why studying the competition can help you stay ahead.
When was the last time you took a look at the numbers of your closest competitors? Seriously! If you aren’t checking in on your competition on a regular basis, your chances of losing out to them increase significantly! On this episode of The Amazing Seller, Scott and Chris go over the numbers of their student’s competition and explain why this exercise is so helpful. You don’t have to leave it all up to guesswork, take the time to investigate and stay ahead of the competition. If their numbers look better than yours do, turn it into a challenge and investigate why that’s the case. To hear more about this important topic, make sure to listen to this episode!
Don’t forget to have a focused PPC strategy!
What is your approach to your product listing and using PPC to drive traffic and get sales rolling? Have you thought that far ahead with your PPC strategy? What results have you seen using an aggressive PPC approach? On this episode of The Amazing Seller, Scott and Chris explain why it’s vital to spend big on PPC and drive traffic to your optimized product listing. While it may seem risky, remember, this is part of a larger strategy to get the ball rolling and start bringing in sales. To hear how you can roll out an effective PPC approach including what works and what doesn’t, make sure to listen to this helpful hot seat session with Scott and Chris! You don’t want to miss it!
Remember, it’s a marathon, not a sprint!
One of the worst things you can do as an ecommerce business leader is to buy into the lie that you can have instant success overnight. If you’ve been around the TAS community for very long, you know that Scott is passionate about communicating this critical mindset shift. Building a successful ecommerce business is a marathon, not a sprint! If you want to succeed, you have to be willing to put in the investment and realize that you won’t see huge profit margins right away. To get a complete understanding of this mindset and what it takes to grow a thriving ecommerce business, make sure to listen to Scott and Chris’ advise on this valuable episode of The Amazing Seller!
OUTLINE OF THIS EPISODE OF THE AMAZING SELLER
- [0:03] Scott’s introduction to this episode of the podcast!
- [4:00] Scott and Chris jump into keywords on part 2 of this Hot Seat Session.
- [8:30] Why it’s important to consolidate your listings.
- [12:00] The guys discuss what it takes to rank for certain keywords.
- [14:00] Scott takes a look at the competition
- [20:00] How a tool like Scope can help you in your keyword strategy.
- [22:00] The difference between a “Fathead” term and a “Longtail” term.
- [26:00] Why it’s a good idea to ramp up PPC spending.
- [31:00] You’ve got to take a long view approach.
- [36:00] Why the shotgun approach isn’t always a good idea.
- [42:00] Closing thoughts from Scott.
TRANSCRIPT TAS 483
TAS 483: (LIVE Hot Seat) Is My Brand and Products worth Saving? – Part 2 Traffic & Keywords
[00:00:02] Scott: Well, hey, hey, what’s up, everyone? Welcome back to another episode of The Amazing Seller Podcast. This is episode number 483 and in today’s episode we are going to continue…
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…our conversation, our live hot seat that we did with one of our students inside of our Private Label Classroom and the discussion and the question that was asked by our student was, “Is my brand and products worth saving?” And in episode or actually part 1, not episode. Well, episode 482, that one there which was part 1, I ended up breaking it up into two parts because it was a longer call and I wanted you also to be able to get the takeaways in each one. And in the first part, we really talked about the products, how they were structured, variations, all of that stuff. And as we were going through it, we were starting to discover, there were opportunities and there were things that we could do to improve it so that was part one. That is an episode 482. So, if you missed that one, definitely go check that one out.
In today’s episode, we’re really going to start diving into traffic and we’re also going to be talking a lot about keywords, long tail keywords, a little bit pay-per-click stuff, how to get more sessions to our listings and also how to consolidate some of our products and focus on the ones that we feel will drive rank. And we talk a lot about the numbers as far as like how many sessions do you need, how many people do you need hitting your page, what kind of conversion, all of that stuff and I know it might sound a little confusing right now if you’re listening to me ramble right here but I just want to give you a little bit of the takeaways and the things that we’re going to be discussing in detail. So, this one here is going to be talking all about that. It’s definitely probably something you’re going to want to go back and listen to or even just go over to the show notes to this episode at TheAmazingSeller.com/483. Now, people asked me a lot of times, “Scott, I didn’t even know you had a class.” Well, this because I don't really mention it a lot on the podcast. I probably should but what I'll do here is I’ll give you the link to that. If you want to check it out, go ahead.
[00:02:04] Scott: All the details are there and that is PrivateLabelClassroom.com. You can find out all the details there. And as part of our Private Label Classroom, we also have something we call TAS Breakthrough U. That is our university if you will. I never went to a university, but this is my kind of university. It’s where we actually get on two calls per month, myself and Chris Schaffer that is, generally for an hour to an hour-and-a-half and in this case, we did a hot seat. We do hot seats. We try to do at least one a month. So, on those two calls, we do one of those is a hot seat. And that's kind of what you're listening to right here is an actual call so this way here you can kind of see what we do behind the scenes breaking down people's businesses. But that's TAS Breakthrough U. It’s part of our Private Label Classroom. Again, if you want details on that, head over to PrivateLabelClassroom.com and check it out.
All right. So, I’m going to stop talking now because this episode again went a little bit longer and I want to make sure that you guys can get through it and also really think about what’s happening in your business or even if you haven’t started, think about how to set up your stuff before you even get started properly and we actually did this in part 1 of this two-part series here of this hot seat where we identified that there were too many variations, well, not even too many variations. There were too many listings and they should've been variations. So, we discovered that pretty quickly.
So, again, even if you haven’t started, this is a great thing to listen to because you’re going to learn as you go through it and it also gives you some things to think about as far as if you are thinking about building a brand or if you’re just doing the shotgun approach as far as like let’s just send in a whole bunch of different types of products and see what sticks. I like building a brand. I like that better and you’re going to hear us talk more about that throughout this hot seat. All right, guys. So, like I said, I’m going to stop talking now so you guys can actually listen to this live hot seat. All right. So, what do you say? Let’s do this.
[00:04:02] Scott: The other question, I’m just again because we’re kind of flying through this here is what is the main keyword that they’re going for? Like, what is the ultimate one that you feel your traffic will be coming from? Because that’s the one that I would probably be trying to bid on, right? I’d be trying to work around that one. I mean, usually, you put that one in the front of your title and that’s kind of the one I just pulled and, Chris, I’m going to text you this one right now, so you know which one I’m looking at. That’s the one that I’m doing right now. So, I’m searching that one and, okay, so I’m looking at that right now and it looks like, I mean, and we call this a long tail, right? There’s like four words that make up the actual one.
You could actually take probably one of them out and make it three but let’s just call it four. There are 700 results for this one I do that search. No big deal. And again, there’s some of these that are out there, Chris, that are $24 and let’s see, we have another one that’s $22 that I said and that’s pretty similar and some of them are $7.99 which kind of crazy. But anyway, so I just want to see if I can even spot where they’re ranking to get an idea if they’re even ranking anywhere because that’ll give us an idea of how to potentially even be pushing the pay-per-click as much as we can.
[00:05:30] Chris: And that’s the other thing. I’m not seeing their PPC showing up on any of these.
[00:05:35] Scott: Well, maybe they turned it off.
[00:05:38] Chris: And if it is still running, you’re going to need to raise that bid. I can tell you that right now because we’re looking at what I would search for if I was looking for this and I know a little bit about this market and I’m seeing lots of your competitors, all the guys that are selling well are showing up and even some things that are completely unrelated. So, if you are still running PPC, make sure that you are showing up for those main keywords and if not, raise your bid on those keywords or raise your bid on those search terms if you’re running it in phrase or exact. Scott, have you been able to find them like page 3, page 4 anywhere?
[00:06:10] Scott: No. I'm actually on page 5 or 6 right now. So, no I have not. And as I'm scrolling through here, it’s like a lot of the same, a lot of the same. So, again, it’s one of those things that what is going to differentiate you but then also right now the only thing that you can really do, I mean, I think your images look great. The only thing that you can really do in my opinion is and yours does look different, to be honest with you than the other ones that are just kind of doing the one that you would find on Alibaba. There’s a lot of them that are just doing that. They’re slapping a logo on it and they’re just selling it. Yours does look nicer. I will give you that, better packaging, even the image has a little bit different color. So, I think you’re doing a good job there.
So, I guess, what I would do, Chris, and it’s kind of what you said is I would pick one because, well, this got four or five different listings. I would pick one that you think is the most relevant and I think the most targeted and then I would push that one and I would just work on that and then if that does end up starting to take hold, you can always then consolidate those other ones if that makes sense because now you’ve got the traffic coming to the one listing. Once we get the traffic to the one listing then we can start doing the promotions in that little area where we want to drive people to our other listings or to something that might be similar. We can do that internally. That's why we like to have our own products inside of our own brand because we can do that back and forth. Instead of trying to focus on all four, all five, pick one and then clean that up and then go from there. Make sure also that your backend search terms are there.
[00:07:58] Scott: A good way also to see how well your listing is optimized for some of those other keywords is probably just to go into your pay-per-click and see what they say just for keywords for you. Even if you’re not going to use those, see if it’s scraping your listing and if you are being shown or if they’re suggesting you should go after these keywords because you are optimized for those keywords. If not, then you’re going to make sure that you can get optimized for those keywords that you think you should be getting found for. That make sense?
[00:08:26] Chris: Yeah. I’m going to give a little tweak on what you just said. Before I focus on that one listing around PPC, I would consolidate those listings.
[00:08:34] Scott: You would? Okay.
[00:08:34] Chris: And you can do that via a flat file if you are a glutton for punishment and I know a buddy, John is probably rolling around right now and Melissa's laughing maniacally because the flat file is not fun. The easy way is to call Amazon and ask very, very, very nicely and sometimes they will do it for you. If not, if all else fails, then you can always run the flat file yourself and you can just consolidate those and then you don’t have to worry about it. And the reason I would do that is because we’re not sure, Scott, at this point which listing is going to convert the best.
So, we’re going to take the one and this is what you and I would do, if we were going to launch this product and we had all four of those, we would take the one that we think has the best appeal. So, either the lowest-priced one or the one that we’ve sold the most of at this point or the one that’s closest to our competitors, the thing that people are thinking that they’re going to get and then we’re going to bring that traffic to our listing using PPC, focus just on that one variation and then we’re going to see what people buy through the PPC reports. We’re going to see if they buy that or if they buy other ASINs. We have a whole report in PPC called sales from other ASINs and we can see exactly what people are buying when they come in through PPC and then we can start to make that difference. The reason that I would do that is because we’re under that sessions mark and I’m willing to bet we’re well under that sessions mark.
[00:09:53] Scott: Yeah.
[00:09:54] Chris: We want to consolidate all of that into one place and then let people tell us what’s working and what’s not. So, I would do that first. Once you’ve done that, then you can start to worry about the other stuff.
[00:10:04] Scott: I actually found their listing, the one that is ranking. It is ranking like on page 9.
[00:10:14] Chris: Okay. For the main keyword?
[00:10:16] Scott: For the main keyword and out of all of the listings, this is the one that came up and so that would probably be the one that I would start with because it’s already indexed, it’s already getting some traffic. I mean, not much but I’m saying it’s at least ranking but no one is going to go page 9 but that’s nine pages deep. So, that would be the one that I would focus on and, Chris, you know what I’m going to do? I’m going to go ahead and send you the one that I found that’s ranking and you can make a note of that. I just sent that to you. So, yeah, that’s what I would do. I mean, I would probably then go with that one because it’s already ranking somewhat. I mean, not great but at least that’s something to work with and then you can start to measure that. I’m going to go a little bit deeper here and see if any of the other ones are coming up anywhere. I’m still not finding it. Let’s see here. Oh, yep, I did.
So, the next one, the one that I was looking at initially, that one is on page 11. So, that one is ranking but it’s on page 11. So, the good news is it’s indexed and it’s ranking. The bad news is no one’s going to find it. But definitely it’s indexed and it’s ranking. So, that’s good. So, now let’s try to push it. So, this is actually good. Let’s go ahead now and say, “All right, if I want to rank for that keyword, what are the next steps?” Well, what I’m going to do is I’m going to go to Amazon and I am going to search for that keyword in Amazon, no special tools here and I’m going to pull up, that’s not what I wanted to do. Sorry. Let me go back. Where was it? Here. Bear with me guys because I’m on the fly here. So, that’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to go ahead and I’m going to take the keyword. I’m going to go to Amazon.com. I am going to type in my keyword. I am going to now look at Jungle Scout at the first page and for that keyword, I have, man, the very first listing has like 3,600 sales.
[00:12:36] Chris: So, would you say there’s demand there?
[00:12:39] Scott: There’s demand but let me just keep going. So, the next one is 703 sales. The next one is like 1,500. The next one is 230. The next one is 320. The next one is 222. So, what this would tell me is this is probably not the keyword that’s driving most of the sales. That’s what I would probably say. Okay. But if I can still land myself in these spots, I can compete maybe with the 700 sales or maybe the 200 sales or the 300 sales but I’m not going to really be able to compete with that 3,600 because, guys, let’s do some math here real quick. If I want to compete with the 3,000, I need, that’s 3,600 actually. I divide it by 30. That’s 120 a day. I don’t want to compete with that but if I can get 250 sales in a month, that’s less than 10 a day. So, again, going back to if I want to be able to rank and I can see here right now there is someone ranking, the one that I’ve seen shown up quite a bit and they’re selling for over $20 like $22 and they are selling and let me just look here quick too. I want to see how long they’ve been selling.
They’ve been selling since January 2017 so fairly new. So, the good news here is this. Chris, this is where I would find the good news. The good news is this. They’re fairly new, okay, actually really new and they are able to rank on this page 1. So, they are a private labeler and they are ranking. Now, what kind of promotion did they do? Don’t know that. What I can do though and this is a way that you can probably get an idea of what they did for a launch is you can go and look at the sales in Jungle Scout if you see like the bar that goes across and you see like the price, you see the category, you see the rank and then you see the sales. You can just click on the sales and then it’ll bring up the estimated sales for the month. Oh, wait a minute though, Chris. That’s last January. Okay. So, that’s actually good. So, they’ve been selling for a while but let me just kind of go through this.
[00:14:42] Scott: So, they started out, when they were first starting out last January, 20 sales. Seventy sales in April. This is monthly, by the way, 125. So, they’ve steadily grown up to 300. It took them one, two, three, four, like four-and-a-half, five months to get to 300 sales. Right now, they are between 300 and 400 sales per month consistently, but they’ve been pushing it. And again, now I just went back, and I go, “Okay, they’ve done it,” and they’ve only sold 300 sales and they’re starting to rank. And they’re steadily getting those 300 sales or 250, 300 sales. Now, the other thing I want to see your real quick here, Chris, is I want to see the other products that they have and see if it’s similar to and they only have like 40 reviews, guys.
So, and like I said, they’re over $20 in price and I’m going to go ahead and click on that and it looks like they have other products. No, actually they don’t. They don’t. It’s the only one that they have. Actually, I’m sorry. Two. They have two. It looks like they have two. One of them is $15.99 and that one there. Let me see what that one’s selling a month. Thirty-three sales so see, not a lot. So, and that might be one of their best ones. Let’s see here. Go through that one more time. Bear with me, guys. Let me go back and I’m going to see their other products again. Yeah. Here we go. Yeah. They’ve got a lot of stuff. So, they are in a brand, guys. They’re not a brand. They do have three of the same product similar to what our friend here has done but they have like an open brand. So, it doesn’t really look like they’re really even competition for you for what you can do but with being said, they’re selling about 250, 260 a month.
[00:16:57] Chris: So, the demand is there. It sounds like we need to get more traffic and that really is the thing. Scott, one thing that you just brought up that I wanted to address, I mean, we got a question that was very similar that said, “My product has ranked on page 1 in the middle for the main keyword. My BSR is 20,000 but the guy at the top of the page is 1,500. I’m getting five sales a day but the guy at the top of the page is getting 30. I thought when I got to page 1 of this keyword that I would be selling quite close to that.” It sounds like they’re running with the exact same issue that you just identified which is the thing that's the most obvious keyword, in this case, is probably not the keyword that's driving the sales. And the way that we kind of gauge that is if you see search results that are all mixed up, so you see the top guy selling you said 3,600 and then it drops to 200 and then like 58 and then back up to 3,000. That’s probably not where those sales were coming from because the way that keyword ranking works is Amazon is going to give the people who are most likely to sell for that specific thing the higher placement.
So, the guy that’s ranking number one for that has the best chance of ranking or selling it. The guy that’s ranking number two for that, has the second-best chance of selling that. So, even though he might only sell 58 units a month, he sells them all in that keyword so he’s going to rank really well for that because Amazon goes, “Ooh, when people search for exactly this, they like this thing.” And so, if you don’t see it close to a logical order or it’s like 3,000, 2,500, 2,000, 1,500, it’s probably not the main keyword. If there’s a whole bunch of random swings in numbers there, it’s probably not the thing that people are using to drive the majority of those sales. The other thing that I would say to Romy is take a look at that sessions. And Everin said, “How do we look up those sessions?” Guys, very easy way to do that, you click on your Reports tab at the top and then go to Business Reports, Detailed Page Sales and Traffic. It’s under the By ASIN category. And what you will see is for every ASIN in your account, you’ll get the number of sessions.
[00:18:57] Chris: I believe they default to 30 days. Yeah. It’s 30 days. Over 30 days, you’ll get to your page view percentage which is just the percentage of your entire account basically, your unit session percentage and your order session percentage. Your unit session percentage is out of everybody that had the listing, how many units were ordered, and the order session percentage is just how many orders were there. There’s going to be a little bit of a difference there if they’re ordering multiple units. The orders are going to be smaller than the unit session percentage. I tend to just use unit session percentage because I care more about that than I do about the total number of orders and they’re usually pretty close.
[00:19:34] Scott: Hey, Chris…
[00:19:34] Chris: The other…
[00:19:36] Scott: Go ahead. No, I was just going to say…
[00:19:37] Chris: …Facebook but if you’re not ready for that yet…
[00:19:40] Scott: No, I’m not ready yet because what I just did too, and this is something else you can do, we should probably shoot a video, some training on this because I think it’s important to do this because we’re kind of guessing. We’re guessing on what number or what keyword we think is driving the sales. Chris, I just sent you over a screenshot. I went into Scope and in Scope, I kind of sorted it by sales. Now, if you guys aren’t familiar with Scope, it’s a tool by Seller Labs. It’s an extension that goes on Chrome and basically, it gives you an idea of the search volume in a whole and it’s kind of doing like this algorithm that they’ve created so it’s not like they’re pulling 100% from Amazon but they also give you estimated sales coming through a keyword. So, what I did is I sorted by estimated sales and I’ve got like probably at least, oh gosh, there’s probably at least 50 to 60 keywords that’s driving the sales.
And if I look at the top, let’s see, the first one, two, the first two are very specific and they’re driving about 46 sales each keyword. So, again, and I think that you’re close to what you’re targeting but you might want to play around with this stuff with some pay-per-click because this is a listing and I went after the one, Chris, though that’s selling 3,600. They’re selling 3,600. They are cheaper so they’re $9.99 so, of course, they’re going to be selling more. But I don’t care. I just want to see where their traffic is coming from and what keywords are being indexed and all that stuff so that’s what I did. And it also gives you an average cost of the pay-per-click, how much you’re going to be spending. But from looking at this, Chris, what would you advise? Would you advise going after some of those other keywords than the ones that we were just initially targeting? Or do you think we’re close?
[00:21:30] Chris: I think we’re close. The third keyword, Scott, that you have here, the 127,800 searches. That one, I mean, that’s the obvious fat head term…
[00:21:45] Scott: That’s the garlic press.
[00:21:46] Chris: Right. And so, if you, guys, hear us say fat head and long tail, we should probably explain that. Fat head, it comes from SEO, from search engine optimization. The fat head is where like the shortest thing that you could say that would describe it accurately. It’s usually like the one or two-word thing. The long tail is where there's a lot of traffic but there are hundreds of different search terms. So, a fat head for a garlic press would be a garlic press. The word “garlic” and the word “press” by themselves don’t describe it but “garlic press” is what most people would type in if they were looking for a garlic press. But then there are hundreds of different ways that you could search for that. So, stainless steel long-handled garlic press would be a long tail search term. That’s not usually where the volume like the maximum volume of sales wouldn’t necessarily come from stainless steel long handled garlic press but I might get two or three a day versus 20 a day if I rank for just garlic press. So, there’s merit in ranking for both.
What I’m trying to do upfront and, Scott, I think you feel the same way is I want to rank for the fat head. If I can rank for the fat head term, that garlic press term, then I know I’m going to get that big chunk of sales and if I’ve accurately used the other descriptive keywords in my listing, I’m also going to rank for stainless steel long-handled garlic press. You know, rank for those easier to rank for keywords that get me a handful of sales a day, not necessarily the majority, but those add up really fast. So, I think we’re close with this. I think the biggest issue that I’m seeing here, Scott, is sessions. It’s not demand. I would argue it’s probably not even price point although that would definitely be something that I would test. It’s most likely just eyes on the page. So, the very first thing that I would do, consolidate those listings, turn up PPC, and then if we want to run some outside traffic, we can. That’s generally not something that I suggest doing directly to an Amazon listing and the reason for that is we can’t track conversion rate, we can’t do any of those kinds of things. So, I don’t know what I’m spending versus what I’m making directly from them.
[00:23:47] Chris: We can do some things there if we really want to in terms of using a coupon code, but you and I found that even with our email list that half the people that buy from the email list don’t bother to use the coupon code. So, we can’t directly attribute that revenue in a very actualized way. We can take a wild stab at it. If we’re going to run external traffic, my suggestion at least at this point would be to build an email list and then drive that email list to this. I wouldn’t advertise directly to this listing especially if you’re trying to figure out how many active sessions a day you’re getting from Amazon, how many you’re coming from PPC while you’re doing all of that. I would focus on building an email list in this niche and then bring them over and sell them on the product versus driving a Facebook ad directly to it. Do you feel the same way about that in this case?
[00:24:35] Scott: Yeah. Absolutely. I’m just digging more and as we’re talking here but I’m looking. This is definitely their best-selling product, this one brand. It’s $9.99. So, not a huge profit that they’re making on that depending on how much they’re buying it for. Now, they have a whole bunch of other products. They’re kind of like an open brand again. They have other products that sell 17 a month, 140 of something completely different and the only other thing that they have that’s selling is again another $6.99 product. So, even though these people are getting sales in their brand here, they’re not making a lot of money.
So, to me, you could compete with these guys. You totally could. The only issue you’re going to have is they are pricing it at $9.99. But what I would do is I would look at that listing that is selling the most and I would look at the reviews and see what people are complaining about and then try to see what people are really, really using it for so it’s not so broad and then you can really start to zone in on that and also make yours kind of meet that expectation, that the people have that are complaining about, whatever. But yeah, there’s definitely room for you. It’s just going to take some work without a doubt. And I think you could but it’s just a matter of how far do you want to go with it.
[00:26:00] Chris: Yeah. Again, I think it just comes back to eyes on page here. I don’t know what the margins are here, but I would ramp up PPC. That would be the very, well, I guess the second thing I would do, and I know I said this a couple of times, consolidate that listing, ramp up that PPC and see what happens. If we’re selling at breakeven, that’s fine. If we’re selling it at a massive loss with PPC then we need to address the PPC thing, but I don’t think we’re even going to get enough clicks at this point to know what our actual ACOS or what our cost per sale is going to be through PPC. We don’t have all of those numbers but that would be my first whack at this.
Because if we can get some sales through this listing, then we can start to rank and once we start to rank above page 9, which is kind of where we are right now, then we’re going to start to see some organic traffic and that gives that flywheel going and then we’re going to be able to rank higher and get better sales from PPC and better sales from organic and that’s really how this whole process works. So, that would be where I would start. If you want to run some Facebook ads on the outside, if this is a space that you care about then I would start to build that email list in this space as well.
[00:27:00] Scott: And just kind to say here too that like they are advertising pay-per-click. I just did a search for two different search terms and they are running pay-per-click. So, you are going to be competing with them which is fine but if you want to push them out then you just have to overbid for a while and you have to absorb some of that and then they’re going to probably want to stop. Because they don’t have a lot of money to keep running that pay-per-click. They’re going to be starting to use all of the money on their profit from it. And actually, I can actually do that really quickly here. I’m going to pull up – the cool thing with Scope too is, Chris, that I’m liking, I don’t use it like every day, but I do use it when I’m looking at stuff like this. If I put in like I can put in the cost of goods of what I think that product would cost and I’m just going to go on the low end and say $3, they’re going to tell me how much they think that it’s going to be profiting and right now it’s after Amazon fees and it gives you all of that stuff, the breakdown with the amount of sales that they’ve made for this month or average on the month, they’re making like $2.50 profit. So that means if they…
[00:28:04] Chris: At $9.99?
[00:28:05] Scott: At $9.99, if the cost of good I put in that $3, the Amazon commission is $1.50, the FBA fee is $2.99 so total cost is $7.49, the profit is $2.50 without any pay-per-click. So, here’s the deal. If you have more profit that you have because you have a product that if you sell it for $20, it will give you $10, well then you can spend $5 of that on pay-per-click and this person will go away.
[00:28:32] Chris: Right.
[00:28:33] Scott: Seriously.
[00:28:34] Chris: Like a month.
[00:28:35] Scott: Yeah. Like Kevin O’Leary, right? So, but all I’m saying is like there might not be anybody in this space right now that’s pushing on this or pushing on the seller but for this seller, they are advertising right now. So, if they’re advertising, they’re eating up some of that $2.50. Now, I can’t imagine that they’re buying this for $1 apiece. There’s no way. I’m going to say with landed cost and everything at least $3 so you’re talking $2.50 max. So, my point is you have room to push if you want to even if you took your – I don't know. Did they say what their cost of goods were?
[00:29:15] Chris: I’m jumping – I’m actually on Alibaba right now looking.
[00:29:18] Scott: Yeah. I was going to say if you could see like even I’m talking like for the hot seat like what’s the cost of goods so we can see like could you sell this at $15.99 or $16.99 and still have a profit where you can then still, number one, push pay-per-click aggressively and bring down your price temporarily so you can get more traction and then once you do, you can slowly increase that? Because I do believe you have a better product 100% and I think if people are looking for this, you’re looking at $10 and $20, I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. I don’t think it’s going to be that much of – if it does what they wanted to do, they’ll pay $20 easy. Would you agree, Chris?
[00:30:00] Chris: Oh, absolutely. So, Scott, I’m on Alibaba right now and I’m seeing $0.98 to about $3. Now again, that’s just cost of goods. That’s not shipping and all that stuff but if we call it $3.
[00:30:13] Scott: Let’s call it $3.
[00:30:15] Chris: Because $0.98, so $1.50, $2 plus $1 per unit in shipping, it’s very lightweight product. $3, is that about what you put in for the product cost?
[00:30:23] Scott: Yes. That’s exactly what I put in, yep.
[00:30:25] Chris: So, we’re still making $2 at $9. Here’s the deal and this is a mistake that I see made a lot of times when we do these hot seats. It’s in the cost of goods. If we’re paying $9 to land this product, we’re doing something wrong.
[00:30:38] Scott: Absolutely.
[00:30:38] Chris: And I have a feeling that may be the case. You can correct this if I’m wrong on this, if you’re hanging out with us, but if we’re selling at $20 and it only cost us $3 or $4, that gives us, okay, let’s just say it’s $4. What is this, Scott? Another $4 or$5 on Amazon fees and all that stuff? That gives us $10 in PPC to play with. If we can’t sell this product in $10 in PPC, we have an issue. So, but if we’re coming in at break even, I’m okay with that upfront. It’s okay to be breakeven upfront. That’s the goal like our goal when we launch a product is to be breakeven and then if we make money, we make money. Like, we don’t come in expecting to make $1,000 right away. We expect to break even on that first quarter. Not usually the way that it works. We usually make a profit whether we want to or not but obviously, we always want to. But the goal is to break even and we're willing to do that so that we can establish rank.
And Romy says, “If you want to nail a specific keyword, should I increase my bid for that keyword or budget?” You have to increase bid. You can’t increase budget for a specific keyword. That’s one of the things that’s driving me nuts about Amazon. Your bid is for the entire campaign or for your entire account whatever your budget. But you can increase bid on that specific keyword. What I would say is if you really wanted to rank for long-handled stainless-steel garlic press, drop it in as an exact and set up bid and you can even put it in its own campaign with its own budget if you really wanted to and say, “Okay, I want to rank for this thing.”
[00:32:09] Scott: Yep. And make a whole budget on that campaign inside of that, not your overall account but that campaign. So, you just isolate that so that way there you’re only putting that budget on that keyword and you can then adjust it. That’s a great idea and, again, if that is the one but I don’t think you know 100% if that is the one in this case. I think we still have to play around with some broad maybe even just some phrase but, Chris, I’m doing a little bit more digging even with our hot seat here. On the one listing that is ranking, they have the two variations and the one that’s $19 and there’s another one that’s $24, the $24 one is actually doing better. The BSR is better on that one than the $20. So, to me, that’s good but what can we do for the $24 one? Can we bring that down to $19 and offer it the same so we can – when we get the eyeballs, it’s going to be more of an attractive offer? Can we even do better than that?
Because here’s the deal. If you do drive that, if you do get the traffic that’s driving that 3,600 sales that the other ones get just even a small part of it then you would be willing to do that. So, I don’t think now that we’ve kind of went through this whole thing, I don’t think I would give up on it. I think what I would do is just try to focus on the one listing that you feel is and I think the one that’s ranking was the one that I would work with and I would model the other ones that are getting sales as far as your competition and I would go after those top keywords and then from there I would just run with those. That would be my last effort, I guess, but again if you are thinking that you might want to build a brand in this then that’s a whole other story because now you can build content around this. There’s a lot of education. The more education that you put out there on YouTube or Instagram or Pinterest or whatever, the more chance you have of people finding it and coming back and buying your product and that’s a long-term strategy though. That’s not something you’re going to put out something today and is going to go viral and you’re going to get a whole bunch of sales.
[00:34:14] Chris: Right.
[00:34:14] Scott: Right? That’s a steady slow growth right there and we’re finding that in the new brand. I mean, we aren’t even in a full year and we’re still pumping out content and that’s just a long-term thing. Today, we might get an extra 10 visits on one thing that we posted three months ago but that’s free and it’s coming in and it’s organic and that’s what we want. So, you set up all these other things inside the brand that will drive traffic not necessarily even to your listing but just to the awareness then that will bring people into your list and then when you have people on your list, you can notify them about just different tips or advice or any of that stuff. Just again, being the reporter is really what you have to do there but, yeah, I mean I wouldn’t give up on it. I think it is a market that’s not going anywhere. I can tell you that. Not going anywhere.
[00:35:00] Chris: It’s been around, it’s going to stay around.
[00:35:02] Scott: And if you can find even other things that might not even be out there yet or kind of like there’s a new spin on it, that would be a whole other take, which I think then you can enter and be first to market and then it’s going to be hard to catch. The problem with the person that’s selling 3,600, it might be great right now for them but the problem for them is that they don’t have a brand and they don’t have a lot to work with as for as like profit. Like, even on that, if they weren’t even spending pay-per-click, they’re still only making about $5,000 on that 3,600 sales. That’s it.
Like, it’s not all that much when you’re doing 3,600 and with that 3,600 if I was them, I would immediately had another product that was $15 or $20 or maybe having something else that they were led to because inside that listing they can then do a promotion, buy get 25% off our other stuff or buy one get one free like all that stuff like you have all this traffic but they’re selling stuff that’s not even related to this on their page. So, again, they’re not really competition in my book because they don’t understand that. You understand it because we’re here telling you. So, Chris, what else you want to add before we wrap up?
[00:36:20] Chris: There’s a couple of things, Scott, and I think one of the things that may be happening here is that Shav is falling prey to the shotgun method of troubleshooting. I put my thing up, it doesn’t work, I’m going to split test them. I’m going to do all these things. I’m going to run Facebook ads. I’m going to throw crap at the wall and see what sticks and that might work. The issue is when you do that, and you don’t know what trigger it is, you can’t repeat it in the future. So, my suggestion and anybody that has this and, Scott, this actually might be a video. I just emailed somebody on our team because I think we did like a checklist version of this at some point, but we might need to do another video and if you guys think this would be helpful, let us know and we’ll do it for you. It’s just a video on how we would troubleshoot this because the process is going to be the same. We’re not going to go drive external traffic and do all of these things unless we know that the basics were there.
So, the first thing would be to double check the depth and demand in that market. Go after what you think that fat head keyword is, see if the demand is there and then if you want to check some of the like long-handled garlic press, stainless steel garlic press, see if there's demand on those as well because those are easier to rank for. The second thing you need to do before you ramp up PPC before you go to Facebook ads is check your sessions and your conversion rate. Are you getting enough people on it to make an intelligent decision about whether you need to change something and what is your conversion rate? How well are you selling when somebody hits your listing? If you’re converting at 2%, and you get thousands of sessions, you don’t have a traffic problem. You have a conversion problem. We have to identify what that issue actually is before we can worry about do we have a ranking problem. Obviously, if we have a conversion problem or a traffic problem, we’re going to have a ranking problem. Once we’ve identified if it’s traffic, well, we need to drive more traffic. PPC is the easiest way to do that. Ramp that up.
[00:38:21] Chris: If it's conversion problem then we can start to do some of the things like using Splitly. What we're doing, in this case, it sounds like, Scott, is just doing everything at once and that in a lot of cases is not beneficial in any way. It’s actually detrimental because if we’re changing stuff and ramping up PPC, PPC might underperform where it would have otherwise. And so, we need to change one thing at a time. And we need to check one thing at a time. So, just like with PPC, Scott, where we say, “Well, are we getting impressions?” Yes. If no, well then, we need to change our bid. If we’re getting impressions and clicks, then that’s great. If we’re not getting clicks, we have an issue there. We need to get more clicks. If we’re getting impressions and clicks but not sales, we have a conversion rate issue. It's the same thing here. Is there demand? Are we getting traffic? Are we getting sales? It's a very simple process but a lot of times we over complicate it because there are all these levers that we can pull, and we forget about the basic stuff like what you and I just did which is saying are the keywords there? Is the depth there? How many sessions are we actually getting? How many people are seeing the listing? And then okay that’s the biggest issue. We’re just not getting any of that traffic. How do we get some of that traffic?
[00:39:31] Scott: No, I love it. Yeah. I definitely think we should probably definitely do a video on what I was just actually doing behind-the-scenes here because I think that would be helpful. And this way here, you can kind of see like you might think that one keyword is the main keyword but in actuality, it's not. And you can kind of tell that, that if you see like an outlier of like someone that’s got like 3,000 sales and then there’s someone that’s got 300 and someone’s got 200 and someone’s got 500 and you’re like, “Well, the depth and demand really isn’t there I guess or how come this guy has got 3,000 and these other guys don’t?” It’s because the other, the 3,000 sales, is coming from either another big fat head keyword or it’s coming from a lot of other little long tail keywords. And the way that really kind of do that is to look at their listing and see what they are targeting because sometimes it would be right in front of their title or it will be in their bullets or whatever like you can kind of tell or you’d want to use a tool like scope and you can kind of reverse engineer that and let their algorithm kind of tell you what they estimate the sales are coming from.
Nothing is going to give you the exact. That I’ll tell you but at least it’ll be good to see what an algorithm that has been created to kind of reverse engineer this would tell us and I think it’s helpful. So, yeah, I think I might do that, Chris. I’ll shoot a quick video kind of walking through that process and then we’ll upload it into TAS Breakthrough U as a bonus training there so that way there we can kind of walk people through that. Because we do that ourselves just so we know even when launching a product. That’s another great thing. If you’re launching a product, why not know the top keywords and not guess at those as much? This way here, you can kind of say, “Okay, I see the competition is,” and that’s why it’s good to find some competition that’s been selling in that market or similar products for longer than six months and then has some good steady sales because that will help you see what the market is doing.
[00:41:28] Scott: Just like this guy that’s selling 3,600 a month for a $9.99 product. For us it’s great. We’ve got a whole bunch of data that they can kind of use in their algorithm versus someone that’s been selling a month. So, the downfall for that person is they don’t have a lot of margin, so we can take that information and plug it into ours that has more margin and we can be smarter about our marketing and we can start to drive pay-per-click and we can start to drive our list to our – and we can kind of ramp things up on our own. Once we get ahead of that, it’s going to be hard to compete because now we can overspend because we have the budget to do so. So, that’s what I got here, Chris. I think this was good. This went longer than I thought.
[00:42:05] Chris: This was an hour. Not a half-an-hour. We’re out of fighting shape apparently.
[00:42:09] Scott: I guess so.
[00:42:11] Scott: All right. So, that is going to wrap up that live hot seat. Now, we did go on and answered about 15 minutes’ worth of questions. That’s generally what we do inside of our TAS Breakthrough U and our live calls, but I just wanted to kind of keep this again to the hot seat. I wanted you guys and hopefully you did, hopefully, you see like there are so many things that you can do once you get yourself going. Like, a lot of people they sit on the sidelines, to be honest with you and they’re thinking to themselves, “Well, what if I get started and I can't make it work? Or I launch a product and it doesn't sell?” There are usually things that we can do to identify if it's a problem with the product or if it's a problem with the market or any of that stuff like you kind of get the idea by us kind of drilling through this live hot seat. And again, that’s why I would say go back and listen to episode 482 that was part 1. That was where we’re kind of identifying some of the problems especially with the products as far as how they were structured.
And then from there in part 2, we talk about getting the traffic and also, that there is some hope here and some other questions to ask yourself if you’re in a situation like this. Is this something that I could build the brand around? Is this something I could build an email list in? Is it something that I could create content around? Is this something I have expertise in? If the answer is yes to that then there's no reason to give up on this because it just means that the product that you pick might be a little bit harder to get some traction because there's more competition but I can almost guarantee that there are products that are in this market that you could start with that are lower competition and then from there you start there and then you graduate to these more competitive products. Because here’s the deal, once you get some history within your brand and inside of Amazon, it’s going to make it easier for you to launch future products. And when you have those assets of an email list and content that you’re pushing towards content but it’s actually pushing people towards products because it’s going to be related to that, it’s going to make your job a lot easier.
[00:44:11] Scott: So again, I just wanted to really share this with you because this is a deep dive into how we really break down businesses and even our own, in our new brand like we’ve went through ups and downs and I’ve told you about them and we’re working through that. It’s like anything. It’s like once you get started though, you have the opportunity to look at the situation and deal with that situation and then ask yourself those questions. Can I get more traffic? How? Well, if I do this, this and this, is that targeted traffic? Where should I start? Maybe pay-per-click because that is the most targeted traffic. Like, all of that stuff we need to take into consideration. So again, hopefully, this helped you. I did want to throw a couple of links at you right here. If you’re interested at all in our Private Label Classroom, definitely head over to PrivateLabelClassroom.com. You’ll learn all the details there and see if you would like to join us inside of our classroom.
And then also on our monthly calls which is offered inside of our TAS Breakthrough U. Again, that can all be found at PrivateLabelClassroom.com. And then if you guys are brand spanking new and you wanted to attend one of our free workshops, we actually have an on-demand one now that you can go to and that one there can be found at TheAmazingSeller.com/WorkshopNow, all one word together. So, TheAmazingSeller.com/WorkshopNow and you’ll have a chance there to go through one of our live trainings, breaking down the five steps to launching a product on Amazon and getting sales. And then the last reminder is if you wanted to download the show notes or just go over and visit some of those links that we referenced, you can head over to TheAmazingSeller.com/483. And, oh, by the way, I will be including a link over there to Scope and if you go through my link, I am an affiliate for Scope, but I know those guys over there really well. I’m using the tool. I love the tool. I love their company so, yes, you would buy me a cup of coffee.
[00:46:11] Scott: But if you wanted to go over and check that out, you can head over to TheAmazingSeller.com/Scope but again, I’ll leave that inside the show notes as well. All right, guys. So that’s it. That is going to wrap up this episode officially. But before we do, I’ll need to remind you one more time that I am here for you, I believe in you and I am rooting for you, but you have to, you have to, come on, say it with me, say it loud, say it proud, take action! Have an awesome amazing day! And I’ll see you right back here on the next episode.
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